(apologies for the grammar, this is a quick translation of a posting on my Welsh blog Clecs Cilgwri)
Last year I rememmber one of the night class asking whether the Wirral had ever been a part of Wales. It's a good question, and one I hadn't really considered before then. It depends I suppose on how you define 'Wales' ("When Was Wales" asked Gwyn A Williams in the title of his book), and of course on the history of the torturously twisting border of today, a border confirmed under the Acts of Union between 1536 and 1543.
Anyway, I was reminded of the discussion once again by a picture which appeared in the October edition of the magazine 'Barn'(opinion), one that represents in paint (i think) Owain Glyndŵr's vision of extending his countrys border to include the 'marcher' counties, from the banks of the Mersey in the North to the Severn Estuary in the South, including places like Worcester, and the Wirral. Certainly neither the 'Welsh' nor the Welsh language where confined to the lands to the west of the border (like today!), but the Wirral had been colonised by Vikings from Ireland in the tenth century, and Saxons of course had arrived before that. So at the time of Glyndŵr, it's unlikely that many of the scattered population of Wirral would have felt 'Welsh'. But if Glyndŵr had won his 'argument' who knows, Wirral could have been a part of Wales, and us Wirralians genuine Welsh!?
I remember having to draw maps of Wales in school in Ystradgynlais back in the 1950's, which included little islands of Wales surrounded by what then must have been Cheshire or Lancashire, but I'm not sure if twhat they were surrounded by was the Wirral or Merseyside. They were marked 'Flint (detached)' but they seem to have disappeared in the 1974 local government reorganisation. I've looked for information on them on the internet, but I guess the Net arrived too late to record them. However I have since met one person (now dead, I fear) who was brought up in one of those enclaves, so I have confirmation that they did exist. Maybe there'll be some record in the archives of Sir Fflint.
ReplyDeleteOn the topic of Glyndwr's claims to land further East than today's Wales, under the terms of the Triple Indenture under which he invaded England in alliance with two English aristos whose names escape me for the moment, Glyndwr would have received the county of Cheshire if he'd beaten Henry (V?) at Worcester. Sadly, Henry used Glyndwr's own methods against him, refusing to fight a pitched battle, so the Welsh army was starved into a long-drawn-out defeat.
Thanks for the comments Dai. I remember that bit of Flintshire that was detatched from the rest of the county. This link takes you to an image of the old county. All these areas fell into Clwyd in '74. The modern Flintshire has lost it's 'island' within Denbighshire:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.antiquemaps.com/uk/wales/28401.html
hwyl, neil
Culturally, there must have one time have been some sort of affinity between the British tribes of the Ordovices(North Wales) and the Cornovii ('us' as it were) although I suppose conversely, we could have been at each other's throats also!
ReplyDeleteIf though, there was peaceful co-existence then who's to say that there isn't more than a strain of 'Cymraeg' inherent in each Wirralian....
Apart from Neston obviously.
Definition of a virgin in Neston= A girl who can outrun her brother.
ReplyDeleteMae'n ddrwg gen i.
ReplyDeleteDw i'n licio Neston!
Actually, there were a lot of Welsh who came over to work in the mines at Neston Colliery and I'm wondering if their influence resulted in the particular dialect of that area(on the wane unfortunately these days)....
Dw i'n meddwl dw i'n mynd i lyfrgell heddiw!